What To Do When Things Don’t Go Your Way

We’ve all likely faced this problem… those times when nothing seems to be going your way. What we do and how we react to those changes really make a big difference in our ability to get by. And what does the way that we handle these situations say about our leadership style and ability to lead others?

What about understanding where we fit into the overall picture of a company – are we operating in a silo or are we part of the overall ecology of the corporate being sharing responsibility for its successes and growth as a team rather than individuals? 

Then there is the mindset shift of changing from looking at what you/your company does in one way and understanding it may be much larger than that.

These are all ways that we can grow as people, as leaders, and as companies.

About John: John Cunningham, trained as an engineer and worked as an IT specialist, working with various computer systems before entering management in his mid-twenties.  That’s where John began to learn the difference between management and leadership, and how leadership can be drowned out by poor management.   John started his own consulting and coaching business and has been running that for the last 20 years, where he offers an unusual range of capabilities, including sales, marketing, growth, organizational, and personal development services to his clients. John’s focus is now mostly, and why people are organizations are stuck at a certain level, and how to break through to that next level, yet remain focused on what it is that is fulfilling.  As John says, fulfillment is more rewarding than money. But you have to know what fulfills you.

Connect with John on Facebook, and LinkedIn.

Transcript (auto-generated; may contain errors):

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Jennifer Glass: Hello and welcome to another episode of MOJO: The Meaning of Life and Business.

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Jennifer Glass: A lot of people

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Jennifer Glass: start having a problem when they get stuck

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Jennifer Glass: too often. There’s issues that come up

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Jennifer Glass: around.

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Jennifer Glass: Oh, I don’t know how to do this. I’m completely stuck.

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Jennifer Glass: or i’m paralyzed by analysis. I’m sure many of you have heard that

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Jennifer Glass: idea.

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Jennifer Glass: There’s so many different pieces that really can cause us to get bogged down to not know where we’re going. What it is we’re trying to do and ultimately achieve our goals that we’re trying to accomplish.

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Jennifer Glass: Knowing how to get unstuck, though, is really the key in our development as an entrepreneur and as an individual

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Jennifer Glass: in terms of figuring out where we go from here. And I’ve got a really incredible guest with us on the program today. Who’s going to help us get unstuck

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Jennifer Glass: before I tell? Bring my guest in, though. Let me tell you all about him.

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Jennifer Glass: John Cunningham, trained as an engineer and worked as an IT specialist, working with various computer systems

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Jennifer Glass: before entering management in his mid-twenties.

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Jennifer Glass: That’s where John began to learn the difference between management and leadership.

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Jennifer Glass: and how leadership can be drowned out by poor management.

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Jennifer Glass: John started his own consulting and coaching business.

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Jennifer Glass: and has been running that for the last 20 years, where he offers an unusual range of capabilities, including sales, marketing, growth, organizational, and personal development services to his clients.

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Jennifer Glass: John’s focus is now mostly, and why people are organizations are stuck at a certain level, and how to break through to that next level, yet remain focused on what it is that is fulfilling.

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Jennifer Glass: as John says, fulfillment is more rewarding than money. But you have to know what fulfills you.

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Jennifer Glass: John. Wow! Welcome to the program.

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John Cunningham: Oh, Thank you, Jennifer. Thank you very much. Pleasure to be here

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Jennifer Glass: absolutely. Thank you. So, John, let me ask you.

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Jennifer Glass: You have done so much in your career.

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Jennifer Glass: I mean, working with the ancient computer systems like we were speaking about in the green room before we

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Jennifer Glass: hit record and things on those lines. So let me just ask. I mean working in the IT world and transitioning into the management and leadership

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Jennifer Glass: arena was definitely, quite the change right?

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John Cunningham: Yes, it was absolutely

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okay.

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Jennifer Glass: So if you were to take one of the building box, though, that you learned in your time in the IT

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Jennifer Glass: sector.

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Jennifer Glass: what would that biggest

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Jennifer Glass: piece, that nugget, or whatever it was that transformed you and really allowed you to see more how leadership and management

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Jennifer Glass: makes a difference when you are that IT Specialist.

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John Cunningham: Okay, yeah. So I’ve been an IT specialist for probably 10 years before I decided to move into

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John Cunningham: a different arena. So I started in sales in a large computer company.

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John Cunningham: and they gave me the opportunity to learn sales skills, and things like that. I didn’t think of myself as a salesperson before that.

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John Cunningham: But suddenly I thought, Well, you know, sales people seem to in a lot more money, so i’m gonna follow the money.

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John Cunningham: and I was successful. I did very well with that at that part of the business, and then

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John Cunningham: we as a company, we ran into some

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John Cunningham: yeah serious limitations and our growth

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John Cunningham: we had. We’ve been responsible for winning nice business here and growing the company with new deals, and so on.

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John Cunningham: But it was plateauing.

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John Cunningham: and we so we said, how can we change that?

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John Cunningham: And that

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John Cunningham: offered me the opportunity to get involved in that project, and learn much more person at a personal level about. What does it take to move from? Just managing a company.

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John Cunningham: that is to say, looking after the nuts and the bolts, and putting things in the right place, and so on

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John Cunningham: to leading your company.

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John Cunningham: which means actually offering people something much more intangible than just the simple numbers, and so on that drive the business.

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John Cunningham: and you can’t get away from the numbers they drive the business there’s no doubt about it. It’s how you then use that

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John Cunningham: to to give people the incentive, the commitment to buy in the

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John Cunningham: the goal

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John Cunningham: that drives them forward, and at the same time drives the company forward.

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John Cunningham: so that it was the transition that I had to make

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Jennifer Glass: certainly an interesting transition. If you think about the going from the it site into the sales side, understanding all of the different components.

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Jennifer Glass: What really is

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Jennifer Glass: not something in the it side that you would expect to necessarily understand. The numbers like you said the numbers in the business don’t live. They drive the business

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Jennifer Glass: on the sales side. We’re taught to be looking at quotas. We’re talk to be looking at the deal size and things on those lines.

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Jennifer Glass: But

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Jennifer Glass: the numbers is really

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Jennifer Glass: this is your small piece of the world

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Jennifer Glass: that you’re responsible for. Of the much broader piece. And now from the sales department. You’re now looking at the management and the leadership of the entire business potentially understanding where your little piece comes in. Is that

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John Cunningham: Yeah, Well, actually, yeah, I At that stage I had. I was now on the management team.

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John Cunningham: and the and my role was to coordinate

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John Cunningham: the strategy for the company in order to take it to the next level.

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John Cunningham: So that was how I got involved in that process, and it involves it really involves looking beyond what the numbers are.

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John Cunningham: and

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John Cunningham: start thinking really about what the numbers mean. So what do they mean to the company as a whole? And what do they mean to your department as a whole.

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John Cunningham: And what do they mean to the individual groups and individuals, people inside those departments.

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John Cunningham: and everybody in the in the company. If you, If the company is going to perform well.

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John Cunningham: every one of the company needs the opportunity to understand how their contribution

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John Cunningham: is making a difference to the overall performance of the company.

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John Cunningham: and they have to see that in some way they don’t have to understand all the detail, but they need to know

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John Cunningham: if i’m a salesperson, and I make this sale. I’m making this contribution to the company.

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John Cunningham: and you know we’ll we’ll do better, and we’ll have more benefits from doing that, etc., etc.

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John Cunningham: If I’m in customer service.

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John Cunningham: when I do my job, answer questions from customers deal with problems, and so on. How am I affecting the future of the company?

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John Cunningham: And it? That is a leadership skill. It’s not a management school that managers Don’t pay much attention to that.

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John Cunningham: But it’s a leadership school.

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John Cunningham: and it enables people to understand. Connect, if you like, their personal contributions to the overall goal of the company.

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Jennifer Glass: So let me ask you, because you mentioned it’s a leadership skill. But managers don’t really pay much attention.

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Jennifer Glass: which is a shortcoming. Then in the managers skill set when you say.

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Oh, yes, absolute

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John Cunningham: okay.

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John Cunningham: because it takes them a to a company to understand the difference between these things. Many, many companies talk a lot about leadership and say, You know, we same people on leadership causes, and we pay attention to leadership skills and all those kinds of things. But if you peel back the covers and have a look.

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John Cunningham: They are not exhibiting true leadership skills.

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John Cunningham: they, in a sense, reciting a few mentors. They, you know, saying this is. If, if I say this often enough, it will become the truth.

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John Cunningham: That’s not how to lead people with I mean it’s. It may be part of it, you know. If you want people to go to war, you have to shout loudly about what you expect them to do.

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John Cunningham: But you know most of the time people are not at war

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John Cunningham: they are just doing their job

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Jennifer Glass: right, although one can say in business businesses sometimes look at it as war, because of the competition that’s out there, and things that you’re dealing with. You are

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Jennifer Glass: ultimately at the

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Jennifer Glass: mercy of the market

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Jennifer Glass: in terms of what it is that you’re doing, and like you, said the numbers in the business when you are in the sales side.

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Jennifer Glass: knowing how to run the business based on where the numbers were knowing how to make those pivots.

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Jennifer Glass: so that when things were going in a certain direction

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Jennifer Glass: adversely to where you wanted them to be going.

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Jennifer Glass: you are in that position to pivot right?

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John Cunningham: Yes, so that requires a mindset that says it’s not a zero-sum game.

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John Cunningham: In other words, it’s not a finite amount in the pot.

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John Cunningham: and if we win, some other people lose something or other. People win something, we lose something. It’s not the way it is.

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John Cunningham: If you think creatively about the your position in the market.

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John Cunningham: you can always find a new proposition

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John Cunningham: that you can bring to the table that adds to the pool overall.

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John Cunningham: So one of the changes we had to take that company through was to move it from being

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John Cunningham: primarily a product based company into primarily a Service based company.

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John Cunningham: and that’s a pretty significant change to make

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John Cunningham: If you go used to selling hardware and software

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John Cunningham: and you want to change it so that you are selling services you have to examine the value chain that you’re working in, and it’s probably a completely different value chain from the one that you thought you were working in.

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John Cunningham: People are used to the idea of the strategy of a company. So the classic example is

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John Cunningham: when the management of P&I got together long time ago 70, so I think something like that.

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John Cunningham: And they and they were asked the classic business strategy question, what business are we in.

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John Cunningham: and you know his ships

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John Cunningham: cruise liners and passenger ships and things like that.

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John Cunningham: And they they said, Well, we’re in the transport business, you know. We get people from one place to another.

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John Cunningham: and after a lot of soul searching, they they discovered they went in the transport business. They were in the hotel business.

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John Cunningham: the fact that their hotel was on a boat and floating.

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John Cunningham: Then we, from one place to another.

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John Cunningham: just added to the context of the hotel, not took away from it.

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John Cunningham: and they changed their whole business strategy, understanding what it what business they were in. If they had continued to fight the battle, if you like on the basis they were in the transport business.

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John Cunningham: They would have to use a fund plan.

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John Cunningham: They would have gone under. So

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John Cunningham: you know they they here?

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John Cunningham: They’d realized soon enough.

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John Cunningham: Okay.

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John Cunningham: this is the business wearing.

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John Cunningham: So it’s not a zero-sum game.

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John Cunningham: It is, in fact,

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John Cunningham: a business at a creative activity.

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John Cunningham: and rather than thinking of it as a war.

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John Cunningham: we should think of it more as a game.

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John Cunningham: It is okay.

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John Cunningham: We are using strategy to win our game, but we’re not winning the game on a you know we beat them basis, you know. Sales, deals and things like that. They They come out like that.

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John Cunningham: but as a company it doesn’t come out like that. It comes out to, you know, growing your influence with your customers doing a better job for them than you did before

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John Cunningham: winning more customers, adding to the satisfaction level of those customers, and so on. So there’s a whole series of things in there. They got nothing to do with, You know, perhaps, the original premise that the company was set up under

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Jennifer Glass: absolutely. And if you think about also Microsoft

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Jennifer Glass: as a perfect example in a similar story.

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Jennifer Glass: Microsoft was originally just a software business.

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Jennifer Glass: but they realize they’re more productivity business as opposed to a software business

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Jennifer Glass: because they help you get stuff done

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Jennifer Glass: right. Whether it’s the Microsoft Office suite.

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Jennifer Glass: It is their email system. It is their operating system.

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Jennifer Glass: All of those pieces are all allowing us to get things done a lot easier than we did before.

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Jennifer Glass: And so Google also isn’t the same idea. It’s not a search engine. It’s a much bigger than a search engine in terms of what Google is. It is? I mean, I I don’t think there’s anything else that became as big other than maybe Xerox.

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Jennifer Glass: That became a verb. And nobody says Xerox anymore.

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Jennifer Glass: you know. But Google, i’m going to go Google it

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Jennifer Glass: right?

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Jennifer Glass: We’re all thinking now of brands as verbs no longer, just as names of companies which is really incredible to see how we shifted

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John Cunningham: exactly

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John Cunningham: somebody using Google as an example.

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John Cunningham: When we Google things we think about their original premise of being a search engine.

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John Cunningham: And other people say things like, I’ll check on Dr. Google, you know, to find out what’s wrong with me.

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John Cunningham: But

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John Cunningham: but they they not.

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John Cunningham: The primary part of the business now is not Search searches the mechanism by which they run their business, which is publishing advertising.

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John Cunningham: That’s what they business.

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John Cunningham: So they they. They obviously need the search engine to get eyeballs in the right places eyeballs in the right places. Get the eyeballs in front of the ads, and I just try the revenue. So that’s the you. You think that at the end of the day. They’re really an add company. Or do you think they’re more of a data

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Jennifer Glass: management company?

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John Cunningham: Oh, the the data management is now a new part of their business, so because they had to store so much business that so much data, they had to become experts at doing it.

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John Cunningham: So they they spring up a new line of business.

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John Cunningham: and, like all that companies, they need to be a little bit diversified. So it’s affect another part of the business.

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Jennifer Glass: I would actually counter them and say that the data that they know about you and me

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Jennifer Glass: allows them to sell that information to the advertisers and other platforms.

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Jennifer Glass: If you think about what you’re doing, I mean, I heard 1 point that Google.

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Jennifer Glass: within a 90, some odd percent

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Jennifer Glass: reliable

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Jennifer Glass: forecast or predictability

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Jennifer Glass: can say where you are going to be next Tuesday at 11 am.

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Jennifer Glass: Which is absolutely incredible that Google knows, before I do.

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Jennifer Glass: where I am most likely going to be simply because of where my phone

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Jennifer Glass: has been the last X number of Tuesdays at 11 am.

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Jennifer Glass: Which is incredible to think in that

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Jennifer Glass: vain.

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John Cunningham: Yeah. Well, that’s that’s a real issue in our current society about the the privacy associated with our data. So yeah, that’s a subject for another time. I suspect

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John Cunningham: the the real issue.

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John Cunningham: It that that I think we were sort of hiding in on was

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John Cunningham: the the the nature of business can change radically.

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John Cunningham: If you start thinking about what that business is trying to achieve, and how it can achieve it.

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John Cunningham: So businesses undergo these transformations, frequently successful businesses.

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John Cunningham: unsuccessful businesses.

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John Cunningham: and you might say Xerox as an example of that. But for Xerox was a very successful company.

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John Cunningham: but it failed to see how things would change.

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John Cunningham: and it’s now. It still exists.

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John Cunningham: but it’s it’s a very small entity now, by comparison.

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Jennifer Glass: and it brings up another story. You mentioned how Xerox failed to change, and if you’ve been listening to this show for a while, you probably heard David Fradin

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talk about

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Jennifer Glass: how

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Jennifer Glass: Kodak completely lost the digital

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Jennifer Glass: camera world

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Jennifer Glass: because they didn’t want to undercut their film division.

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Jennifer Glass: And what was interesting was how they created that industry just to shut it down.

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Jennifer Glass: thinking we need to protect the film side and completely changed. How we look in general

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Jennifer Glass: at

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Jennifer Glass: where businesses are, I mean, there’s so many businesses whether it was blockbuster versus Netflix.

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John Cunningham: the taxi industry versus uber.

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Jennifer Glass: So many industries fail to see how they needed to shift and meet those pivots in order to get

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Jennifer Glass: realigned with where the market is going. So, John, let me ask you, how can we.

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Jennifer Glass: as a business, know when we need to be more agile and start thinking about pivoting?

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Jennifer Glass: Or do we

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Jennifer Glass: stay as the captain, because we spoke about the boat earlier, the captain staying on the sinking boat.

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John Cunningham: I think the signs that when

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John Cunningham: to the one of 2 things happens. What is your of the whole? The company performance basically Plato. In other words, it’s productivity

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John Cunningham: the way it earns its money, the amount of profit it’s generating, and so on. And this applies to private companies, all public companies

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John Cunningham: that public companies have a

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John Cunningham: suffer from the idea that they have to report their numbers, and they need to generate increased earnings per share and stuff like that. That. That’s a separate pressure altogether. But for a private company

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John Cunningham: the issue. Here is, what are your earnings plateauing?

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John Cunningham: You might be doing more work. You might have more customers, but your profit hasn’t really gone anywhere.

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John Cunningham: That’s a sure sign that the that the strategy you’re using for the business needs a review of some kind.

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John Cunningham: The second sign is.

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John Cunningham: How do you feel about your work.

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John Cunningham: you know, if you started a company, and it’s running along recently, nicely, and so on, and you’re recently happy with the income you’re getting from it, but the work no longer appeals to you.

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John Cunningham: That’s another sign

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John Cunningham: that you need to review something.

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John Cunningham: because you know, because in the end you want fulfillment.

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John Cunningham: There’s no point in.

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John Cunningham: Yeah, If you just bought you. If you started a company and bought yourself a job, you don’t like it anymore.

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John Cunningham: That’s no different from going to work at Walmart, you know. I mean it’s the same thing. You just going to do something the same thing day after day, and not make any progress.

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John Cunningham: So

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John Cunningham: if you’re not making any progress either in the way you feel about the business that you’re doing, you that you’re running or trying to improve or so on, or the performance of the company is Platoing. That’s the shoe assign. You need to do something. Review the strategy of the Company review the way in which it’s running, etc. Etc.

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Jennifer Glass: So, John, let me ask you if we’re looking at

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Jennifer Glass: a situation in a given business.

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Jennifer Glass: and

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Jennifer Glass: the business right now has been

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Jennifer Glass: study there, Hasn’t, been an increase in revenue there Hasn’t. Been a significant decrease, Either

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Jennifer Glass: the customers are still there, but it’s just not really moving the needle.

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Jennifer Glass: Do we need to be making a shift in strategy at this point, or do we wait and see

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Jennifer Glass: if the shoe is going to fall

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Jennifer Glass: before we make that

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Jennifer Glass: decision to do something different.

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John Cunningham: You know, I

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I think the

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John Cunningham: to ask whether you should change the strategy is making the assumption that the strategy is not working. There might be other things that are not working

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John Cunningham: other than the strategy.

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John Cunningham: So it it. It might require some change to the way you manage customers. It might be trying, but require a change to the way you, Mac. It might require change the way you sell. It might require a change to some of your product. Mix something like that. Those are sorts of things that that might

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John Cunningham: need to be changed, and you don’t know that until you review it.

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John Cunningham: but most of the time, for example, smallish companies that are run by say, one or 2 people.

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John Cunningham: they find it hard to make that review, because

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John Cunningham: what you’re doing is you’re questioning the decisions you made that got you to where you are.

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John Cunningham: and there is, you know, the old quote.

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John Cunningham: The thinking that got us to where we are now is not the thinking that will get us to the future.

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John Cunningham: So you know, it is going to have to be a little change of thinking somewhere.

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John Cunningham: so it may not require a total change of strategy, but it might require attention to some part of the business, so that, for example.

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John Cunningham: you might be able to take quite a significant amount of cost out of the business that you don’t even notice that you’re spending

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John Cunningham: where you might be able to change your sales process and a reasonably minor way, and actually really increase the amount of sales that you are getting

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John Cunningham: so there. There are changes like that you can make if the cut, If the company is steady and you know it’s not going up, it’s not going down. Everything is smooth.

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John Cunningham: That is an accident waiting to happen, because.

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John Cunningham: you know, you in anything can happen you can lose one or 2 customers at any time.

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John Cunningham: but they get bought by another company. They, you know the the your contact moves on to another company.

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John Cunningham: You lose contact with the you know the nice warm contact you had with that organization is any number of things as it can go wrong. So if you’re standing still.

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John Cunningham: you are, in fact, just waiting to go backwards.

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John Cunningham: So it’s best to act

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John Cunningham: in that situation, and it may be that you don’t have to make very many changes, but you can

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John Cunningham: improve the performance of the company quite significantly by making some small changes to the way the company operates. Not major strategic ships.

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Jennifer Glass: Let’s go back to

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Jennifer Glass: being stuck

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Jennifer Glass: and getting unstuck.

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Jennifer Glass: A lot of people fear change.

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Jennifer Glass: as they say.

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Jennifer Glass: I believe it was President Kennedy who said, there is nothing to fear, but fear itself.

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Jennifer Glass: Or maybe that was President Roosevelt to forget exactly now who said it? But

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Jennifer Glass: one of the Presidents.

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Jennifer Glass: A lot of people, though, are always

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Jennifer Glass: fearful of making change, and it’s one of the things that many people put off

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Jennifer Glass: in terms of making change, so they can get unstuck. Sometimes you really have to be between a rock and a hard place before you are ready to

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Jennifer Glass: make any kind of change and start getting unstuck, though

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Jennifer Glass: how do we start looking at what it is that is impacting us, and let’s not look necessarily on the corporate management level.

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Jennifer Glass: But let’s look a little more

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Jennifer Glass: on the lower level.

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John Cunningham: Right? You and me.

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John Cunningham: We need to get unstuck.

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Jennifer Glass: What can we do? That is going to help us figure out how we can start getting on. Stuff.

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John Cunningham: Yup.

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John Cunningham: So first of all.

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John Cunningham: yes.

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John Cunningham: people believe that people are afraid of change.

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John Cunningham: What they’re really afraid of is uncertainty.

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The

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John Cunningham: people who understand the change can welcome the change.

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John Cunningham: That’s the first thing we learn in organizational development that the change process needs to be

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communicated extremely well.

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John Cunningham: because if it’s a communicated will.

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John Cunningham: People will understand what it’s about it doesn’t mean. I will all agree.

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John Cunningham: but

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John Cunningham: at least they’ll understand what’s going on.

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John Cunningham: So the thing that people fear most is, in fact, uncertainty.

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John Cunningham: and and if we can take the uncertainty out of it, then people will make changes. So, for example.

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John Cunningham: people leave home and go, and, you know, live somewhere else. Go to another town. People get married, people have children.

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John Cunningham: people, people’s, parents, or other relatives die.

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John Cunningham: People lose their jobs. People get new jobs.

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John Cunningham: These were all massive changes in people’s lives.

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John Cunningham: and for the most part other than the ones that happen without warning.

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John Cunningham: For the most part people embrace those changes.

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John Cunningham: you know. Do you go to you? Move to a new town because you get a new job? It’s a major change. You don’t go shaking and trembling.

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John Cunningham: You You take it on as a challenge.

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John Cunningham: because you understand what the change is about and what you’re going to get from it, and why it’s important.

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John Cunningham: So the real issue and change is not understanding what’s coming.

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John Cunningham: So when people get stuck

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John Cunningham: it’s not so much that they fear change itself.

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John Cunningham: It’s that they don’t understand what the change

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John Cunningham: is, what which particular changes required, and how they are going to cope with it.

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John Cunningham: That’s the issue.

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John Cunningham: Also, if you are, if at a personal level, if you are called upon to make a change of some kind.

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John Cunningham: that’s kind of saying

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John Cunningham: you’re not doing something quite right now.

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John Cunningham: There’s something you need to be doing differently.

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John Cunningham: And in in the personal development of field we don’t talk about things being right or wrong, or bad or good.

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John Cunningham: We talk about things being useful or unusual.

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John Cunningham: So we all have

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John Cunningham: a a whole series of unusual behaviors.

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John Cunningham: Yeah. Things we wish we didn’t do

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John Cunningham: things that our friends or family wish we didn’t. Do you know it’s unusual behavior? It’s not good behavioral bad, because for us at the time some part of us is saying.

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John Cunningham: This is the best thing to do right now.

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John Cunningham: so

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John Cunningham: that you know we we, we it’s best to try not to categorize things as good or bad, but rather useful and useful.

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John Cunningham: Once we acknowledge that we are developing beings.

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John Cunningham: That’s the first thing you know

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John Cunningham: the decisions we made when we were 15,

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John Cunningham: and not the decisions we would make. Now

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John Cunningham: we have different information.

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John Cunningham: We have a different emotional makeup now from what we had in.

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John Cunningham: So these changes happen, whether we like them or not.

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John Cunningham: The key thing in all of these things

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John Cunningham: is what I would call emotional maturity.

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John Cunningham: and that is to understand that your emotional state is the thing that governs the way you do practically everything.

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John Cunningham: And if you

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John Cunningham: you need, if you feel

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John Cunningham: if you don’t, if if you need to make a change. But you don’t understand what the change is.

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John Cunningham: then you will be afraid to make the change, and if it’s a personal change, one of the key things You’ to be afraid of is well. I won’t be me anymore.

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John Cunningham: You know. I i’m going to make this change, and I’m going to give up smoking.

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John Cunningham: There’s a good change for you.

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John Cunningham: I’m going to give up smoking.

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John Cunningham: Not that many people smoke these days. But there was a time, I remember, when a lot of people smoked.

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John Cunningham: and one of the reasons people wouldn’t

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John Cunningham: give up smoking

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John Cunningham: just because

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John Cunningham: they would lose part of themselves. They would no longer be part of the subculture that smokes

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John Cunningham: that meets, you know, in the corridor that has extra cups of coffee during the day, that, and so on, and so on. So this this whole thing that went with being a smoker, and if they gave that up

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John Cunningham: they would lose something.

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John Cunningham: So the the subconscious mind is always trying to weigh up

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John Cunningham: 2 things.

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John Cunningham: What do? What does it? What do I perceive the benefit of this change?

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John Cunningham: And what do I perceive the benefit of not making the change?

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John Cunningham: And if the benefit of not making the changes perceive to be greater than the benefit of making the change. Then you won’t make it.

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John Cunningham: You would just

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John Cunningham: come up with an excuse.

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a reason.

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John Cunningham: And when you said before, you know. Should we wait until our backs against the wall or the ship is sinking?

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John Cunningham: Well, that promotes change, because suddenly it’s a life or death thing, so that certainly it’s a major issue, and there’s an old saying in the development business. It says there is no personal development without trauma.

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John Cunningham: I think it’s going a bit far, so I like to say there’s no personal change without drama.

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John Cunningham: You have to have some drama.

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John Cunningham: Yes, there has to be something at stake.

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John Cunningham: There has to be something important that’s compromised by the current situation.

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John Cunningham: And that brings me to the second part of the of the issue, which is

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John Cunningham: people’s values

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John Cunningham: that your values are the things that you find important. What’s important to you.

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John Cunningham: you know, and and you have values about all different things that are all different levels.

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John Cunningham: But when your values are compromised.

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John Cunningham: that is, when you face change you, you actually have to stand and face it.

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John Cunningham: And and we know this in relationships. Successful relationships

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John Cunningham: have enough common values

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John Cunningham: that they can support each other.

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John Cunningham: It I mean not have the identical values that it starts to get a bit boring. But but there’s enough commonality in their values

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John Cunningham: that they can see. You know that’s great. We, we, we share these things. These are the things we like to do. These things are important to us, and so on.

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John Cunningham: But that doesn’t mean there are things that you still wouldn’t like to change, and that change has to be thought of as developmental. Am I improving

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John Cunningham: myself?

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John Cunningham: The people around me.

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John Cunningham: the planet, by making this change.

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John Cunningham: you know. So you. You really ought to take into consideration more than

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John Cunningham: the totally selfish view that you know. If I do this, I will be better off.

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John Cunningham: But the subconscious mind

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John Cunningham: things totally selfishly. It doesn’t care about anything else. It just says.

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John Cunningham: You know

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John Cunningham: this is good. Let’s do it.

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John Cunningham: and then you’ll find ways of persuading you to do it

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John Cunningham: will not do it, you know, depending on what’s at stake.

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John Cunningham: so that’s where personal development

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John Cunningham: starts to

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John Cunningham: hit the road. You know the rubber hits the road there. It has to do with people’s personal values, and it has to do with

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John Cunningham: what is at stake when this change is presented to you

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John Cunningham: if it’s, if it’s not important to you.

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John Cunningham: probably not going to do anything about it. If there’s nothing at stake.

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John Cunningham: you know the house is not burning down. I’m going to stay in the chair watching TV.

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John Cunningham: But if the house is burning down i’m probably going to say it’s more important to get out of the chair right at this moment.

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Jennifer Glass: It’s funny You mentioned the house burning down because it reminds me of the story of one of my mentors, Dan Kennedy.

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Jennifer Glass: who has a famous story. About one time he was on a phone call.

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Jennifer Glass: and somebody is knocking on his door.

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Jennifer Glass: and then they’re ringing his doorbell.

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Jennifer Glass: and they’re just not leaving.

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Jennifer Glass: and he’s like, oh, my God! Well, this person, please just go away, leave me alone.

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Jennifer Glass: And then next thing that happened. This guy goes around in the back of the house and is looking in the window into Dan’s office.

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Jennifer Glass: and Dan is like all right. This is seriously getting ridiculous.

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Jennifer Glass: and the person says your house is on fire.

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John Cunningham: And immediately

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Jennifer Glass: the guy became a welcome guest. And not that annoying pest, as a Dan uses those terms

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Jennifer Glass: to

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Jennifer Glass: really start making that change, and they figured out how to ultimately

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Jennifer Glass: deal with the fire, get the fire department and everyone, and go from there. So it’s a really funny story, True, but funny story to illustrate that point. But the other thing also, John, i’ll just mention here you mentioned, there has to be drama in terms of being in a position to finally make a change.

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Jennifer Glass: and that’s one of the areas that I try and actually work with my clients on share showing them they don’t actually need to have that drama built up into a point of having drama, because there’s many things that we can do to mitigate

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Jennifer Glass: that kind of drama from happening. One of the things that I very often share with my clients is, if you think about what we need to do.

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Jennifer Glass: Many of the things that we need to do on a daily basis happen during business hours, because other people

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Jennifer Glass: we’re working during those same hours. We need to call the billing department of a particular company. We can only

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Jennifer Glass: talk to the billing department, normally speaking, during business hours

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Jennifer Glass: if we need to get to the pharmacy here in the United States. 2 major pharmacy chains recently announced that they’re going to be significantly scaling back their hours

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Jennifer Glass: across much of the country.

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Jennifer Glass: and that’s going to mean that we have to get it done during business hours.

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Jennifer Glass: So what I always share is

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Jennifer Glass: don’t let everything build up to a

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Jennifer Glass: mountain

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Jennifer Glass: if you can get an address when it’s just a molehill.

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Jennifer Glass: think about what you can do to mitigate that drama that you don’t end up in that place

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Jennifer Glass: of oh, my God! What am I going to do now? I’m out of medicine, or my services are being turned off, whatever it might be.

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Jennifer Glass: Think about how you’re going to be

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Jennifer Glass: addressing those problems before they become problems.

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Jennifer Glass: So.

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Jennifer Glass: John, as we look at wrapping up our conversation.

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Jennifer Glass: I want to know if you’re looking out over the next 3 years. Used to be 5, 10 years that we would ask this.

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Jennifer Glass: But if you’re looking out over the next, say 3 years, where do you think

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Jennifer Glass: the biggest change in terms of management and leadership

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Jennifer Glass: is going to be coming from.

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Jennifer Glass: and the kind of impact that that may have. Is it going to be AI driven? Is it going to be

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Jennifer Glass: the pandemics

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Jennifer Glass: lasting impact? Where do you think that change is going to be coming from?

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John Cunningham: Well, I yeah, I I think that changes on us already, and I don’t think AI is going to have quite the impact on management and the leadership

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John Cunningham: that people think it might have. It’s obviously gonna have a massive impact on a number of things like how a decisions made in companies, and

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John Cunningham: you know, etc., etc. Things like that. And of course, for people on a personal basis, they got to be subjected to AI stuff more and more if we thought that, you know

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John Cunningham: getting getting calls from call centers, you know, to sell us, you know, 2 sided can openers or something like that was was a bit

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John Cunningham: How irritating! Wait till this whole business gets under way. You know we’re going to get all kinds of interesting stuff presented to us.

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John Cunningham: but in terms of management and leadership the real issues are actually in front of us right now.

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John Cunningham: So we have generational change on our plates. We have baby boomers. I’m. A baby boomer. So baby boom is all leaving the workforce.

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John Cunningham: and many of them left

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John Cunningham: suddenly because of the pandemic. Because I thought I don’t need to do this anymore.

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John Cunningham: You to retire in 2 years or 3 years, and i’m just. I’m going to retire now.

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John Cunningham: So a whole bunch of people left the workforce at that level.

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John Cunningham: and we have a whole new generation of you know, millennials coming into the workforce who have completely different values.

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John Cunningham: Different value sets

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John Cunningham: I mentioned values before.

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John Cunningham: Leadership is about understanding the values of the people that you deal with.

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John Cunningham: and and dealing with those values in a sensible way.

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John Cunningham: so that changes with us already. And I think it’s going to

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John Cunningham: the the the trains that we see in in in the marketplace. Now the the quiet quit, the work from home, the demands from you know, the younger generation coming into the workforce. I don’t mean they are unreasonable to it, just different demands.

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John Cunningham: and that that we didn’t have before. So all of these things are going to have to be managed, and that is the leadership challenge

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John Cunningham: of today. It’s actually always been the leadership challenge. But it is the one that we have to deal with right now. The change of work structure.

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John Cunningham: the change of values related to work and the change of

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John Cunningham: workforce makeup. Okay.

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Jennifer Glass: thank you. So, John, let me ask you people that have been listening

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Jennifer Glass: to

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Jennifer Glass: our conversation on this show.

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Jennifer Glass: maybe interested in knowing more about you.

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Jennifer Glass: How can they find out more about you? How can they connect with you.

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John Cunningham: Well, I have several websites, so i’ll just give you one of those for now. So your dash, profit, coach.

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John Cunningham: dot com

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John Cunningham: your dash profit coach.com. I have several others as well.

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John Cunningham: and of course they want to reach me, email me or do something like that. They can reach me at John C.

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John Cunningham: It.

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John Cunningham: John cunningham.us so John [email protected].

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John Cunningham: I’m sorry. This is a bit of background noise which is happening. A heavy rain show.

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Jennifer Glass: Not a problem.

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Jennifer Glass: So thank you, John. So much for being my guest today, and

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Jennifer Glass: I know that

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Jennifer Glass: our listeners definitely got a lot of value in terms of understanding how businesses may need to be more

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Jennifer Glass: agile in terms of changes that are happening.

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Jennifer Glass: How we, as individuals, may need to be addressing the

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Jennifer Glass: change.

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Jennifer Glass: whether it’s our subconscious mind. Who wants the whatever it wants, as a selfish side.

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Jennifer Glass: Or we understand sometimes that we may need to do things, even though it is uncomfortable to do things. There’s a lot there that we discussed, and a lot for us to really unpack, and what I would certainly recommend you do if you’re listening is

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Jennifer Glass: so get in right now what you heard, John and I talk about.

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Jennifer Glass: But then come back later and listen again.

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Jennifer Glass: One of the things that you can do is you can be listening initially for the content of what we’re saying.

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Jennifer Glass: and then you can come back and listen to the context

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Jennifer Glass: of what it is that we’re talking about, and how the nuances

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Jennifer Glass: that may be there

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Jennifer Glass: can really be clear. How can you now make a conscious decision to make that change in your business

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Jennifer Glass: and make a change in your life, to really help you get to where you want to be and get you unstuck.

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Jennifer Glass: So once again, John, thank you so much for being my guest today.

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Jennifer Glass: and

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Jennifer Glass: on that note this has been another episode of MOJO: The Meaning of Life and Business, and until next time here’s your success.

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John Cunningham: Thank you. Jennifer: Pleasure is mine.

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Thank you.